Blessings ,
I am trying to formulate my question for the last couple of days .
In short , what is the safest way to continue meditation and what are the tools to use when during the process of meditation the out of body experience happening which cannot be controlled ?
For example , I am driving the car and suddenly seeing myself sitting on the front top of it . This is dangerous to drive . Or the room walls or furniture is melting . Or extremely vivid lucid dreams .
I had to suppress my mediation many times because of this . I went to multiple places including Buddhist , Zen centers , metaphysical college , churches , Shambala center etc , I have read and reviewed tons of literature and still could not get any help .
My background : I am a professional , highly functional and successful person with 2 college degrees , speaking fluently 4 languages , never used any drugs , no bad habits , currently healthy .
My intuition is telling me what to do and I try to listen to it with the great results for myself , my business and people around me .
Still sometimes I cannot pinpoint the message - for example The message was - danger , smthing would fall on my new born daughter and to validate it I cleaned the whole house , moved the bed and everything around . But it was the DVD player in my SUV which fell in the baby car seat 15 sec after we took the baby out . This made me believe that my daughter had an extremely powerful Guardian Angel and at the same time it showed the limitation of my intuition .
Even if I knew it ahead of time I was hopeless to prevent the damage .
Another example - after I met my ex , I saw many times the image of a gray wall full of spikes when I was looking at him with my intuitive vision and I even told this to him before we got married about it .
8 years after and I still have the same image but at this time it is validated completely and I know exactly the meaning of that message . But at the time I was making decision about marriage I did not listen to my intuition which was basically screaming inside of me since I was thinking that I was strong and could change things .
These are just a couple examples from my life .
As you see , somehow I have a natural capacity to meditate and I am forcefully shutting myself from the world of the thoughts forms and intuition because I have no control over there and do not know how to thread in safely .
In Malkuth I know that if I take the apple it would stay in my hand and I can put it back or eat it . In the world of thoughtforms I am helpless . It can start as an apple and turn and develop into anything known and unknown to me . The same with intuition - the message has to be proper interpreted to be applicable in this reality and I do not have skills . Smtimes I get the msg 100% and smtimes I am spinning for months/years circling around .
Sorry for the long message .
I do not know how to explain it shorter
Namaste,
Verafaith
I am trying to formulate my question for the last couple of days .
In short , what is the safest way to continue meditation and what are the tools to use when during the process of meditation the out of body experience happening which cannot be controlled ?
For example , I am driving the car and suddenly seeing myself sitting on the front top of it . This is dangerous to drive . Or the room walls or furniture is melting . Or extremely vivid lucid dreams .
I had to suppress my mediation many times because of this . I went to multiple places including Buddhist , Zen centers , metaphysical college , churches , Shambala center etc , I have read and reviewed tons of literature and still could not get any help .
My background : I am a professional , highly functional and successful person with 2 college degrees , speaking fluently 4 languages , never used any drugs , no bad habits , currently healthy .
My intuition is telling me what to do and I try to listen to it with the great results for myself , my business and people around me .
Still sometimes I cannot pinpoint the message - for example The message was - danger , smthing would fall on my new born daughter and to validate it I cleaned the whole house , moved the bed and everything around . But it was the DVD player in my SUV which fell in the baby car seat 15 sec after we took the baby out . This made me believe that my daughter had an extremely powerful Guardian Angel and at the same time it showed the limitation of my intuition .
Even if I knew it ahead of time I was hopeless to prevent the damage .
Another example - after I met my ex , I saw many times the image of a gray wall full of spikes when I was looking at him with my intuitive vision and I even told this to him before we got married about it .
8 years after and I still have the same image but at this time it is validated completely and I know exactly the meaning of that message . But at the time I was making decision about marriage I did not listen to my intuition which was basically screaming inside of me since I was thinking that I was strong and could change things .
These are just a couple examples from my life .
As you see , somehow I have a natural capacity to meditate and I am forcefully shutting myself from the world of the thoughts forms and intuition because I have no control over there and do not know how to thread in safely .
In Malkuth I know that if I take the apple it would stay in my hand and I can put it back or eat it . In the world of thoughtforms I am helpless . It can start as an apple and turn and develop into anything known and unknown to me . The same with intuition - the message has to be proper interpreted to be applicable in this reality and I do not have skills . Smtimes I get the msg 100% and smtimes I am spinning for months/years circling around .
Sorry for the long message .
I do not know how to explain it shorter
Namaste,
Verafaith
Accepted Answer
You may be able to have experiences and visions easily, but that is not the same as being able to meditate. Skill in meditation is defined by being able to control the consciousness. With skill in meditation, one can control the flow of attention. One can have visions or not have them, as one wills. When one cannot control visions or experiences, it is because one is not controlling attention at all times: that is, the mind is running, producing thoughts, emotions, imaginings, etc. without conscious control. This state corresponds to the first few degrees of the nine stages towards developing true meditative serenity.
Therefore, the solution to your suffering is to learn to control attention in all things, at all times. Learn to tame your mind, and control it. A good measure of this is simple: can you stop all thinking? For how long? Someone who is skillful in meditation can choose to think or not to think. When you can suspend thought, and hold attention serenely, then those you gain control over experiences, visions, etc.
Therefore, the solution to your suffering is to learn to control attention in all things, at all times. Learn to tame your mind, and control it. A good measure of this is simple: can you stop all thinking? For how long? Someone who is skillful in meditation can choose to think or not to think. When you can suspend thought, and hold attention serenely, then those you gain control over experiences, visions, etc.
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." - Samael Aun Weor
Blessings ,
I went on Saturday to Vesak celebration to the Vihara and spent some time listening to lectures of Thich Nhat Hanh and Gelong Thubten .
I am dedicating my meditation to the benefits of others as per Bhante s recommendations . By me being the Empath it gives additional encouragement and ability to better channel energy . I did not know before that I could channel my energy this way .
I also did my Tarot Card and The Empress came out . Like Aphena . I will use this card as my Avatar
Thank you for your support ,
Vera
I went on Saturday to Vesak celebration to the Vihara and spent some time listening to lectures of Thich Nhat Hanh and Gelong Thubten .
I am dedicating my meditation to the benefits of others as per Bhante s recommendations . By me being the Empath it gives additional encouragement and ability to better channel energy . I did not know before that I could channel my energy this way .
I also did my Tarot Card and The Empress came out . Like Aphena . I will use this card as my Avatar
Thank you for your support ,
Vera
Imagination (perception of non-physical phenomena) and concentration (conscious will) are linked. Our goal in meditation is to balance and strengthen them in a positive way. When someone has imagination active but cannot control it, they need to strengthen concentration (conscious will).
That is why I recommended in my first response that you learn how to control attention (concentration) by means of meditation. This is the solution to the problem.
You need to gain control of what you pay attention to. That is, you need conscious willpower.
For example, when you "see that the world around me is dissolving of if out of body experience is happening while I am driving the car" you need the ability — the willpower — to focus attention on driving the car, and not pay attention to visions or going out of the body.
That is why I recommended in my first response that you learn how to control attention (concentration) by means of meditation. This is the solution to the problem.
With skill in meditation, one can control the flow of attention (concentration). One can have visions or not have them, as one wills. When one cannot control visions or experiences, it is because one is not controlling attention at all times: that is, the mind is running, producing thoughts, emotions, imaginings, etc. without conscious control.
You need to gain control of what you pay attention to. That is, you need conscious willpower.
For example, when you "see that the world around me is dissolving of if out of body experience is happening while I am driving the car" you need the ability — the willpower — to focus attention on driving the car, and not pay attention to visions or going out of the body.
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." - Samael Aun Weor
Blessings ,
Instructor , What I call "visions" is really the mix of images , intuitive feelings and some out of body experiences . I am trying to focus only on the ones which help me to improve myself and to help others .
But at the same time there are "visions" I have difficulty working with like when I see that the world around me is dissolving of if out of body experience is happening while I am driving the car like I described in the previous post .
Those " visions " I need help with . And they get more intensified when I move deeper with my meditation . So I completely stopped everything to keep more grounded and it was helping for a while .
But the knowledge and guidance which I have probably since I was born that we are not the bodies who have the Spirit but Spirit which has the body to operate in this dense world of Malkuth is not allowing me to leave the Path and I have to keep going .
Currently I am working on not feeding the Shells with my energy , neither outside or inside of me and cultivating the " Inner Child " . I have 2 degrees - Internal Medicine and Acupuncture and obviously I have a lot of knowledge and experience accumulated throughout the years .
I find Gnosis the excellent way to put all of those things in order and I will continue the School of Spirit with reviewing every single lecture offered and spinning the best out of it , working up through the Shells and clouds of mind , helping others along the way .
I just need help if some experience is taking me completely out of the line and I cannot understand or control it . Something like a check up point review from the side of the person who is more experienced than me
Verafaith
Instructor , What I call "visions" is really the mix of images , intuitive feelings and some out of body experiences . I am trying to focus only on the ones which help me to improve myself and to help others .
But at the same time there are "visions" I have difficulty working with like when I see that the world around me is dissolving of if out of body experience is happening while I am driving the car like I described in the previous post .
Those " visions " I need help with . And they get more intensified when I move deeper with my meditation . So I completely stopped everything to keep more grounded and it was helping for a while .
But the knowledge and guidance which I have probably since I was born that we are not the bodies who have the Spirit but Spirit which has the body to operate in this dense world of Malkuth is not allowing me to leave the Path and I have to keep going .
Currently I am working on not feeding the Shells with my energy , neither outside or inside of me and cultivating the " Inner Child " . I have 2 degrees - Internal Medicine and Acupuncture and obviously I have a lot of knowledge and experience accumulated throughout the years .
I find Gnosis the excellent way to put all of those things in order and I will continue the School of Spirit with reviewing every single lecture offered and spinning the best out of it , working up through the Shells and clouds of mind , helping others along the way .
I just need help if some experience is taking me completely out of the line and I cannot understand or control it . Something like a check up point review from the side of the person who is more experienced than me
Verafaith
The desire to have visions can be mixed: the consciousness needs knowledge and thus longs for it. That "desire" is necessary and good. The ego also desires, but wrongly: for pride, vanity, envy, etc.
Experiences arise easily and naturally according to:
1. the conditions. this is explained thoroughly in the courses on this website.
2. karma. you can only acquire what you earn. even if the conditions are perfect, if you do not deserve to see, you will not. Thus, one needs to earn it through good deeds
3. the will of the Innermost. Ultimately, our Innermost determines what we can and cannot access. If we do the will of the Innermost, then through visions we will be given the information we need to proceed. The Innermost does not grant visions based on our animal curiosity, etc.
Work with these factors and positive experiences are the natural outcome.
Experiences arise easily and naturally according to:
1. the conditions. this is explained thoroughly in the courses on this website.
2. karma. you can only acquire what you earn. even if the conditions are perfect, if you do not deserve to see, you will not. Thus, one needs to earn it through good deeds
3. the will of the Innermost. Ultimately, our Innermost determines what we can and cannot access. If we do the will of the Innermost, then through visions we will be given the information we need to proceed. The Innermost does not grant visions based on our animal curiosity, etc.
Work with these factors and positive experiences are the natural outcome.
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." - Samael Aun Weor
You may be able to have experiences and visions easily, but that is not the same as being able to meditate. Skill in meditation is defined by being able to control the consciousness. With skill in meditation, one can control the flow of attention. One can have visions or not have them, as one wills. When one cannot control visions or experiences, it is because one is not controlling attention at all times: that is, the mind is running, producing thoughts, emotions, imaginings, etc. without conscious control. This state corresponds to the first few degrees of the nine stages towards developing true meditative serenity.
Therefore, the solution to your suffering is to learn to control attention in all things, at all times. Learn to tame your mind, and control it. A good measure of this is simple: can you stop all thinking? For how long? Someone who is skillful in meditation can choose to think or not to think. When you can suspend thought, and hold attention serenely, then those you gain control over experiences, visions, etc.
Instructor, how does one will to have visions without "violently" forcing them to occur? I meditate regularly and I've had a few visions, some useful and some from my ego. Isn't it kind of wrong to desire having them?
Blessings ,
Pallas Aphena .
The energy of your Avatar brought me back to the vision of Ephesian Artemis which I saw in my dreams without knowing who she was and then we went on vacation to Vatican Museum I saw her statue suddenly in front of me . It was an amazing experience
I feel the energy , I feel the direction , will spin it now
Thank you for your help , this is all I needed , to feel the energy and direction
Namaste ,
Verafaith
Pallas Aphena .
The energy of your Avatar brought me back to the vision of Ephesian Artemis which I saw in my dreams without knowing who she was and then we went on vacation to Vatican Museum I saw her statue suddenly in front of me . It was an amazing experience
I feel the energy , I feel the direction , will spin it now
Thank you for your help , this is all I needed , to feel the energy and direction
Namaste ,
Verafaith
Accepted Answer
You may be able to have experiences and visions easily, but that is not the same as being able to meditate. Skill in meditation is defined by being able to control the consciousness. With skill in meditation, one can control the flow of attention. One can have visions or not have them, as one wills. When one cannot control visions or experiences, it is because one is not controlling attention at all times: that is, the mind is running, producing thoughts, emotions, imaginings, etc. without conscious control. This state corresponds to the first few degrees of the nine stages towards developing true meditative serenity.
Therefore, the solution to your suffering is to learn to control attention in all things, at all times. Learn to tame your mind, and control it. A good measure of this is simple: can you stop all thinking? For how long? Someone who is skillful in meditation can choose to think or not to think. When you can suspend thought, and hold attention serenely, then those you gain control over experiences, visions, etc.
Therefore, the solution to your suffering is to learn to control attention in all things, at all times. Learn to tame your mind, and control it. A good measure of this is simple: can you stop all thinking? For how long? Someone who is skillful in meditation can choose to think or not to think. When you can suspend thought, and hold attention serenely, then those you gain control over experiences, visions, etc.
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." - Samael Aun Weor
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