Tuesday, 10 January 2017
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Dear instructors,
Thank you for your continual service to the members of this community and students across the globe. I was hoping you could shed some insight into a question that I have spent a lot of time trying to meditate on without limited success...
In Gnosis we learn about bodhisattvas, the great Initiates who sacrifice everything in order to pay all of their karma and incarnate the Christ to help our suffering humanity. We also learn that these great Initiates, upon reaching the heights of wisdom, often make the grave mistake of falling so that they may some day acquire an even higher degree of wisdom after much suffering, pain, and hard work. We also learn that the great longing of so many Initiates is to become Paramarthasatyas, or inhabitants of the Ain, where they are free from the danger of falling. We learn that Jesus, or Master Aberamentho, was a Paramarthasatya who acquired the right to and entered the Ain, and left and fell only to rise again (please correct me if I'm wrong here) and become the incomprehensible Initiate who leads the Gnostic Church in our universe.
My question is: is one ever truly free from the danger of falling forever? It is discouraging to me that even an Initiate that entered the Ain still wound up falling. It is troubling to me that even if, by the Grace of God, we as mere aspirants some day complete the Great Work, we will forever be subject to rising and falling? Is there ever a limit one reaches where one never falls again, even if they remain in the universe? Can one ever become a permanent inhabitant of the Ain and never leave? or does entering the Ain work similar to Nirvana, where there are periods where one remains there and periods where one must inhabit the universe and be in danger of falling?
I apologize for the complexity of these questions and realize that explaining these things and obtaining clear answers is not something we can hope to achieve via an online forum, but only through meditation. However these things weigh heavily on my mind and heart and I was hoping for some clarification or further food for meditation!
Thank you!
Thank you for your continual service to the members of this community and students across the globe. I was hoping you could shed some insight into a question that I have spent a lot of time trying to meditate on without limited success...
In Gnosis we learn about bodhisattvas, the great Initiates who sacrifice everything in order to pay all of their karma and incarnate the Christ to help our suffering humanity. We also learn that these great Initiates, upon reaching the heights of wisdom, often make the grave mistake of falling so that they may some day acquire an even higher degree of wisdom after much suffering, pain, and hard work. We also learn that the great longing of so many Initiates is to become Paramarthasatyas, or inhabitants of the Ain, where they are free from the danger of falling. We learn that Jesus, or Master Aberamentho, was a Paramarthasatya who acquired the right to and entered the Ain, and left and fell only to rise again (please correct me if I'm wrong here) and become the incomprehensible Initiate who leads the Gnostic Church in our universe.
My question is: is one ever truly free from the danger of falling forever? It is discouraging to me that even an Initiate that entered the Ain still wound up falling. It is troubling to me that even if, by the Grace of God, we as mere aspirants some day complete the Great Work, we will forever be subject to rising and falling? Is there ever a limit one reaches where one never falls again, even if they remain in the universe? Can one ever become a permanent inhabitant of the Ain and never leave? or does entering the Ain work similar to Nirvana, where there are periods where one remains there and periods where one must inhabit the universe and be in danger of falling?
I apologize for the complexity of these questions and realize that explaining these things and obtaining clear answers is not something we can hope to achieve via an online forum, but only through meditation. However these things weigh heavily on my mind and heart and I was hoping for some clarification or further food for meditation!
Thank you!
Accepted Answer
It is possible to reach a certain height and remain there. Yet when reaching a certain height, one can see that there is more knowledge to acquire, and more happiness to know, but to reach it, one must descend:
No matter ones level, the danger of falling is always present because of the mind. For those who know how to control the mind, this is not a problem.
The one who wishes to ascend must first of all descend. No one can ascend without previously having taken the trouble to descend.Therefore:
We must distinguish between a downfall and a descent.To fall is to break the law, acquire karma, and much suffering. To descend is not like that. Many masters descend and rise again, more glorious, without breaking the law.
No matter ones level, the danger of falling is always present because of the mind. For those who know how to control the mind, this is not a problem.
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes.” —Demosthenes
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
Accepted Answer
It is possible to reach a certain height and remain there. Yet when reaching a certain height, one can see that there is more knowledge to acquire, and more happiness to know, but to reach it, one must descend:
No matter ones level, the danger of falling is always present because of the mind. For those who know how to control the mind, this is not a problem.
The one who wishes to ascend must first of all descend. No one can ascend without previously having taken the trouble to descend.Therefore:
We must distinguish between a downfall and a descent.To fall is to break the law, acquire karma, and much suffering. To descend is not like that. Many masters descend and rise again, more glorious, without breaking the law.
No matter ones level, the danger of falling is always present because of the mind. For those who know how to control the mind, this is not a problem.
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes.” —Demosthenes
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
Thank you for the response Matthew Thomas. If I may ask a follow-up question...in the lecture entitled The Archeus, Samael Aun Weor states that he will not fall again because it would be too painful for him. Does this mean he has reached a level where he is immune to falling, not in the sense that the danger is not present, but rather because his will has become determined not to ever do so again? If this is the case, would he need to descend should he ever wish to progress further?
How does a Master acquire more knowledge through a descent when they do not have any ego left to eliminate?
These matters are difficult to understand because it appears that the Great Work never has an end. This makes sense due to the infinite nature of the Universe and God, but for one to spend eternity being fallen during certain periods and standing during others is troubling, especially given how bitter it is to exist with the ego. Perhaps I have fear to meditate on.
How does a Master acquire more knowledge through a descent when they do not have any ego left to eliminate?
These matters are difficult to understand because it appears that the Great Work never has an end. This makes sense due to the infinite nature of the Universe and God, but for one to spend eternity being fallen during certain periods and standing during others is troubling, especially given how bitter it is to exist with the ego. Perhaps I have fear to meditate on.
Within this experience there is an intelligent principle that we must understand. A human can fight a great deal for his transformation in order to reach the union with God. This human progresses until there. However, after a human being reaches the union with God, when God manifests himself in this human, we can say that from here on there is no progress.
If this human being wishes to progress, he must then retrograde, which means to throw the Stone into the water.
What happens to the Stone?
When the Stone reemerges into life, it emerges much more powerful, more penetrative. It is something extraordinary.
There are Initiates who perform the work seven times. Beyond seven times it is very dangerous because one can fall into damnation.
I have performed it three times, but frankly, I will not make it a fourth. I do not want to expose myself to losing a great amount. However, the three times that I have performed it, the situation has come to me as it must be, extremely painful.
For example, in the central plateau of Asia, when I threw the Stone into the water for the third time, I said to myself, “How I have fought over the centuries in order to raise myself again. What frightful weights, such terrible bitterness!” And only now, after having suffered terribly, tremendously, this Philosophical Stone is again being reborn. In 1978 it will be reborn.
My understanding is that Samael Aun Weor is determined not to fall, but ultimately must do what his Father wishes. If his Father wishes him to descend, then he will.
Knowledge is acquired through experience.
Also consider this....
Knowledge is acquired through experience.
Also consider this....
A relatively long time ago, while being in profound meditation, I was a witness to something unusual.
Indeed, I saw with mystical astonishment two adepts who, after having achieved a complete identification with Paranirvana, attained the final liberation.
These brethren, attired with their tunics of white linen and their heads covering with a mantle of immaculate whiteness that reached until their feet, entered within the Abstract Absolute Space.
Frankly, since I still have not lost my capacity for astonishment, I felt myself amazed, bewildered. Thus, with wonderment, I accompanied them until the Ring Pass Not (the gate of the universe)...
I saw them penetrate into the Uncreated Light of the Absolute filled with infinite humbleness and veneration.
They passed far beyond the gods and humans. They became Paramarthasatyas. Nevertheless, they submerged themselves within “That” as simple apprentices...
This is because successive mystical exaltations also exist within the Absolute, which are far beyond any comprehension for us.
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes.” —Demosthenes
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
Thank you for the clarification and quote from the Master. Is it correct to state that the Father may wish for his bodhisattva to descend to acquire more experience, but never wishes for him to fall? The latter being a mistake made by the bodhisattva. Or is that oversimplifying something more abstract?
That is correct.
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes.” —Demosthenes
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
So, If it's the Father's will it is a 'descent', if it's the will of the Bodhisattva it's a 'fall'?
But, before the descent and/or fall isn't the will of the Father and the will of the Bodhisattva one will?
Or, is the fall of the Bodhisattva subsequent to the descent?
But, before the descent and/or fall isn't the will of the Father and the will of the Bodhisattva one will?
Or, is the fall of the Bodhisattva subsequent to the descent?
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