Thursday, 20 November 2014
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Coming from an islamic background I can see the heavens, infradimensions, the ego, reincarnation, purification, the building of the bodies and the mystical death in the writing of the Qur'an. However, where does the Qur'an ever mention chastity as defined in this tradition? The Bible has one obscure line about how the righteous never sin because they do not spill the seed. Even then it's one line out of all the books. I'm actually curious about any mention of alchemy in any religion from Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, Mayan culture, Norse, etc. I'd like to gather quotes from various religions. It's one thing to say all religions are pearls on the necklace of divinity, but another to demonstrate it. if I were to say that to someone I'd need to be able to back it up.
7 years ago
·
#8157
Accepted Answer
To comprehend the path of initiation, one must be initiated into its mysteries through study and practice.

Those in whose hearts is deviance seek the signs and interpretations of religion, adulterating what is lawful with what is unlawful as Prophet Muhammad taught us.

Humanity justifies its degeneration and poisons itself with fornication. Sadly, the lustful have poisoned language too.
Life is a well of joy, but where the (fornicating) rabble also drinks, there all wells are poisoned.

I appreciate all that is clean (chaste); but I do not like to see the grinning snouts of the unclean (the fornicators).

They cast their eyes into the well (of Yesod: sexuality); now their disgusting smile reflects back up to me from the well (meaning, through their lust they want to justify their lewdness, saying that sex is only for fornication and procreation as animals).

They have poisoned the holy water with their lustfulness, and when they called their filthy dreams “pleasure,” they poisoned the language too. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: On the Rabble

If in thirst you drink water from a cup, you see Allah in it. Those who are not in love with Allah will see only their own faces in it. -Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rūmī
If you love fornication, you will seek to find fornication within religion, seeing only your own face in its waters. If you are chaste, heaven will reflect within the waters of your mind, therefore illuminating the genuine meaning of religion and the scriptures.

As for the original definitions of terms like chastity and fornication (before fornicators poisoned the language), see this resource.

For thirty years I sought God. But when I looked carefully I found that in reality God was the seeker and I the sought. -Bayazid al-Bastami

7 years ago
·
#8143
Regarding alchemical teachings in Islam, have you seen this resource?

For thirty years I sought God. But when I looked carefully I found that in reality God was the seeker and I the sought. -Bayazid al-Bastami

Thank you for your reply. However, there is nothing I saw from that link in regards to the Qur'an which states that one should abstain from orgasm. It mentions chastity, but in laymen's terms that means total sexual abstinence or virginity. And traditionally fornication means sex outside of marriage.

I'm going through the Qur'an now after studying the teachings of Samael aun Weor, but I haven't yet come across anything that strikes me as denouncing the orgasm. There are things that could subtlety refer to it, but that's not based on the actual text itself. It's just me attributing that meaning to it in hindsight.

2:222 Your wives are your tilth; go, then, unto your tilth as you may desire. But first, provide something for your souls, and remain conscious of God, and know that you are destined to meet Him.
7 years ago
·
#8149
You stated:
Thank you for your reply. However, there is nothing I saw from that link in regards to the Qur'an which states that one should abstain from orgasm.
However:
It is He who has sent down to you the Book. Parts of it are definitive verses, which are the mother of the Book, while others are metaphorical. As for those in whose hearts is deviance, they pursue what is metaphorical in it, courting temptation and courting its interpretation. But no one knows its interpretation except Allah and those firmly grounded in knowledge; they say, ‘We believe in it; all of it is from our Lord.’ And none takes admonition except those who possess understanding. -Āl ʿImrān [3:7]
If you look at the scriptures in laymen's terms, you will only see as a lay person. If you look at the teachings with an informed eye, awakened cognizance, and linguistic understanding of the original meaning of words like "fornication" and "chastity," then you will know that Al-Qur'an, as well as all religions, denounce the orgasm.
And We raised the Mount above them for the sake of their covenant, and We said to them, ‘Enter the gate prostrating’ and We said to them, ‘Do not violate the Sabbath (the mysteries of Saturn, the Holy Spirit, transmutation),’ and We took from them a solemn covenant (never to commit fornication and to worship gods besides Him).

Then because of their breaking their covenant, their defiance of Allah’s signs, their killing of the prophets unjustly and for their saying, ‘Our hearts are uncircumcised (they do not kill the animal within them by removing the foreskin, the lust of their hearts).’ Rather Allah has set a seal on them for their unfaith, so they do not have faith except a few. -Al-Nisāʾ [4:154-155]

For thirty years I sought God. But when I looked carefully I found that in reality God was the seeker and I the sought. -Bayazid al-Bastami

What linguistic source do you have which states chastity, by definition, ever specified the abandonment of the orgasm between married couples? From what I see from etymological sources is that it has always meant at its core "virtuous or pure from unlawful sexual intercourse". However, what actually constitutes lawful and unlawful sexual intercourse would need to be elaborated upon or else the word is nigh meaningless. The problem is said conduct has never been defined as the forbiddance of the orgasm in the English language. Clearly, not in the Arabic equivalent either because everyone is spilling the semen be they Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc.

"Laymen's terms" are the definitions. Those definitions I mentioned are what chastity and fornication mean in the English language. Samael aun Weor making up new definitions (vs. new words) for already existing words does not change that. And there is no way for anyone not privy to said new definitions to magically come to this tradition's conclusion without already having the faculties to magically understand. Who reads a book with established words like "tree" and thinks, when he comes upon said word, "Hmph, maybe 'tree' actually means something other than 'tree'?" No typical person does this. No normal person has a reason to. Someone has to educate you beforehand; give you the code words. Or you have to already be on the path and have developed the faculties to understand it. In the case of the latter, who needs the book in the first place? I would have already had the kundalini in the upper vertebrae to have such faculties. After all, I'd have an "informed eye" and "awakened cognizance". But the people who are supposed to get guidance from it do not. So are you saying all these religious texts from around the world are for people who are already beyond the need of them or a select few who have the luck of being in the position to get the code words to decipher the actual message? And for everyone else is the point of these religions to waste people's time with false hope and easy answers?
7 years ago
·
#8154
Are you bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if you marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remains, that both they that have wives be as though they had none. 1 Corinthians 7: 27-29


And let those who find not the means to marry be abstinent till Allah enriches them of His bounty [science of alchemy]. Let the slaves [of lust] who want to buy their freedom [from their own wickedness] have an agreement with you in writing if you find them to be virtuous [chaste]; and give them of the wealth of Allah [the science of alchemy] that He has given you. And constrain not your maids to prostitution [better said, to orgasm], if they desire to live in chastity, that you may seek the chance goods of the present life. Whosoever constrains [the orgasm] them, surely Allah, after their being constrained, is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. - Chapter (24) sūrat l-nūr (The Light)

Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah,
the Root of David, has prevailed to open the book,
and to loose the seven seals thereof. - Revelation 5: 5

7 years ago
·
#8157
Accepted Answer
To comprehend the path of initiation, one must be initiated into its mysteries through study and practice.

Those in whose hearts is deviance seek the signs and interpretations of religion, adulterating what is lawful with what is unlawful as Prophet Muhammad taught us.

Humanity justifies its degeneration and poisons itself with fornication. Sadly, the lustful have poisoned language too.
Life is a well of joy, but where the (fornicating) rabble also drinks, there all wells are poisoned.

I appreciate all that is clean (chaste); but I do not like to see the grinning snouts of the unclean (the fornicators).

They cast their eyes into the well (of Yesod: sexuality); now their disgusting smile reflects back up to me from the well (meaning, through their lust they want to justify their lewdness, saying that sex is only for fornication and procreation as animals).

They have poisoned the holy water with their lustfulness, and when they called their filthy dreams “pleasure,” they poisoned the language too. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: On the Rabble

If in thirst you drink water from a cup, you see Allah in it. Those who are not in love with Allah will see only their own faces in it. -Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rūmī
If you love fornication, you will seek to find fornication within religion, seeing only your own face in its waters. If you are chaste, heaven will reflect within the waters of your mind, therefore illuminating the genuine meaning of religion and the scriptures.

As for the original definitions of terms like chastity and fornication (before fornicators poisoned the language), see this resource.

For thirty years I sought God. But when I looked carefully I found that in reality God was the seeker and I the sought. -Bayazid al-Bastami

Lion of Judah wrote:

Are you bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if you marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you. But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remains, that both they that have wives be as though they had none. 1 Corinthians 7: 27-29

And let those who find not the means to marry be abstinent till Allah enriches them of His bounty [science of alchemy]. Let the slaves [of lust] who want to buy their freedom [from their own wickedness] have an agreement with you in writing if you find them to be virtuous [chaste]; and give them of the wealth of Allah [the science of alchemy] that He has given you. And constrain not your maids to prostitution [better said, to orgasm], if they desire to live in chastity, that you may seek the chance goods of the present life. Whosoever constrains [the orgasm] them, surely Allah, after their being constrained, is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. - Chapter (24) sūrat l-nūr (The Light)


I am not saying that orgasm isn't forbidden. I'm not saying that it isn't a part of every true religion. What I'm saying is that there is no way a regular person can pick up any book that does not expressly say it and arrive at that conclusion. In the above quotes you are taking information from this tradition and inserting hidden meanings. However, the actual text does give this information to anyone who isn't already working on themselves and has the spiritual faculty to understand or people who have been educated to decipher such things. The Gospel actually says, as plainly as I've seen, do not spill the seed.


The following does require some knowledge external to the text itself to fully comprehend, but it remains upfront nonetheless. I can give someone this quote and directly tie it in to teachings of this tradition.

1 Corinthians 15
[35] But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
[37] And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
[38] But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
[39] All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
[40] There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
[41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.



1 John 3
[3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


Neither of these quotes absolutely requires me to insert any external text to arrive at the meaning. There are other such Gospel quotes which openly state such things. What I am looking for is similar verses from other religious books like the Qur'an, Torah, etc.

Almustafa wrote:

If you love fornication, you will seek to find fornication within religion, seeing only your own face in its waters. If you are chaste, heaven will reflect within the waters of your mind, therefore illuminating the genuine meaning of religion and the scriptures.


This is my point. If I'm already chaste then I'm already aware of it. In which case why do I care about any religious text. I'm already doing what I need to do.

I was a teenager and a virgin when I found the Qur'an and remained a virgin. But ultimately, it was a waste of time. It wasn't until I dumped religion that I found true religion. If I had ever found someone I felt worthy of marriage as a traditional Muslim or Christian I would have become a fornicator because I have no basis to ever believe that orgasm isn't just a natural and expected outcome of sex. I have turned down ALOT of women in my lifetime on the basis of blind belief that there should be no sex before marriage. And then if you are abstinent well you are messed up anyway because without transmutation that energy screws up your head. So then there is nothing expressly forbidding masturbation and that become the outlet. So although I did turn to masturbate I'm not really surprised. There is no talk of transmutation. I was basically wasting my time as I pretty much became a catholic priest from a sexual standpoint. Even in the case of the Gospel verses above, the how is not specified. OK, I need to keep the seed and make these bodies to be born again, but you're still left not knowing how. Also in terms of mystical death, where it is said if thy hand or eye offend thy remove them least the whole body burn. This relates to the ego of will and psyche, but the how is absent. So what I'm saying is these religions, to the common people, are just wastes of time. You mostly just repress some ego, continue sinning ignorantly in other ways and don't move forward practically. Hell awaits the devoutly religious and the prostitute.
7 years ago
·
#8163
Indeed!

http://glaucoliche.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/untitled.jpg

Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah,
the Root of David, has prevailed to open the book,
and to loose the seven seals thereof. - Revelation 5: 5

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