Tuesday, 03 September 2013
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The Vatican wrote two books against the new age. One on view of logic, intuition, and theological differences: "Jesus Christ the bearer of the Water of life" The other on the clear differences between Christian and Eastern meditation: "Some aspects of Christian meditation"

Obviously the Vatican documents are much more in line with Church Fathers and even the fathers Weor claims were gnostic, a position which is such a horrible logical position it's laughable anyways, but my question is why believe in this Gnostic teaching when weor died of cancer and is extremely obscure, but there is actual Christian martyrs who were so filled with Christ as to be physically persecuted to death, who would completely disagree with this site? Why take Samael's position as any kind of authority in life, religion, prayer, meditation, theology, philosophy, when it can only be based on his personal claim of his unity with Christ? Logically it makes no sense to me how anyone can believe this. Bashing logic doesn't answer my question. Gnosis presupposes logic, because if the world can be known internally, externally, wherever it has to be rational. Experience itself is a rational estimation. We can't scientifically prove we experience anything at all, but it's logical to believe we are and have. In other worlds I don't know I'm writing this right now, but I believe I am. And even if I believe I know, that belief rests on reason.

Maybe logic has ruined me, because I take it as the foundation of every meaningful observation of the universe ever since I really started learning the Western philosophical tradition, which even Arab philosophy is based on, and I've never even heard of independent eastern philosophy at least not effecting their religions since admittedly Christianity and Islam appear to be logical since a formal logic never existed for the older religions to cope with including Judaism, but as great as Arabic philosophy is, which is mandatory in the Catholic Seminary I attended, it really can't compare in scope to the Catholic Intellectual tradition. Nothing is more logical to someone interested in logic, or to someone who believes the world can follow a logical pattern, but if you deny this, what can be known, since everything would be unstable if it can't be grasped reasonably?

Affective meditation of filling the heart with Christ. Discursive meditation of filling the mind with God. Contemplative meditation of God lifting the soul into ecstasy and lowering it into desolation. Lectio Divina or holy reading of the bible intertwined with the former meditations, but there nothing is nothing about emptiness or void ambiguities to be found in the pre 20th century of Christian meditation.

I could go on but I doubt you reply much except an article of Samael and expect me to believe it as gospel truth. It might be a good idea to put a disclaimer on your get help forum that it'll only help those who already believe in Samael's spiritual authority. Just saying.
9 years ago
·
#4387
Accepted Answer
And he (the Intimate Christ) spake also a parable unto them (his disciples practicing the three factors of spiritual revolution: birth: "to bear one's cross," death: "to deny oneself," and sacrifice: "to follow Christ"—Matthew 16:24); No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old (no one approaches the esoteric knowledge with their fanatical preconceptions by "wearing" doctrines in the superficial intellectual manner, to study but to have no real experience of the truth); if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent (destroying the hypocritical Pharisee fanatic's mind through empty intellectualism devoid of divine logic and the vivification of the awakened consciousness), and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old (because to agree is to comprehend scripture through experience, and in order to really comprehend the teachings of Christ, one must "deny oneself," one's preconceptions, and one's retrogressive intellectualism devoid of any genuine spiritual experience).

And no man putteth new wine into old bottles (no one can digest this wisdom if he does not purify his mind); else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish (that soul and mind will shatter because of intellectualism devoid of the spirit).

But new wine must be put into new bottles (new minds that function through Noetic and Dianoetic thought, produced through psycho-spiritual transformations in profound meditation and transmutation, since the seminal waters of the body must be transmuted into the wine of comprehension and flourishing spirituality—John 2:1-11); and both are preserved (in order to preserve this wine, one must conserve and sublimate their "waters").

No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better (meaning: my interpretations, beliefs, and concepts are better than your doctrine). -Luke 5:36-39
So please, if you have questions about how to change yourself, or how to overcome your suffering (since your posts clearly show you are sick from hate), please post them. But if do not like the wine of this teaching, the wine of the New Testament, the wine of the Church Fathers, the wine of Socrates, the wine of Plato, the wine of Aristotle, the wine of Augustine, and the spiritual wine of Aquinas, then we ask you cease such demonic logic and retire in peace.

Joyful in hope, suffering in tribulation, be thou constant in thy prayer.

Benedictis, qui venit in nomine Domini. Osanna in excelsis.

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest!"

9 years ago
·
#4360
While in the parallel universe of the fifth dimension, I Samael Aun Weor felt the necessity of invoking a Master, thus I cried with a great voice, calling, beseeching, asking. In an instant, it looked as if the whole universe was transformed, such is the power of the Word......

I saw then the chariot of the centuries, which was driven by three Masters of the White Lodge, and a venerable Elder was in this chariot of mystery. How can I forget such a face? Such a countenance? Such an appearance? Such sublime perfection?

The forehead of that Elder was certainly high and majestic, his nose straight and perfect, his lips fine and delicate, his ears small and recoiled, his beard white and with an aureole of light, and his hair of an immaculate whiteness was falling over his shoulders. It is obvious that I could not stop inquiring about him, since he was terribly Divine and formidable.

“The name of Him is Peter,” answered one of the Hierophants who was driving the chariot of the centuries.

Then after... oh God of mine!... I abased myself on the ground before this Elder of the Centuries, and filled with infinite love and compassion, while speaking in the golden language, he blessed me.

Since then I have reflected a lot, and I will never be sorry for having taught humanity the Gospel of Peter, the Maithuna, Sex Yoga. Patar, Peter, said:

Behold I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious... Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner. And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense. - 1 Peter 2:6, 7, 8


Regarding these present times Peter said:
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.

They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless - for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard - if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority.

Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.

These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error.

They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true:

“A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” - 2 Peter 2

Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah,
the Root of David, has prevailed to open the book,
and to loose the seven seals thereof. - Revelation 5: 5

9 years ago
·
#4366
As we mentioned to you previously, there are two forms of logic: the logic of angels and the logic of demons. How you "reason" depends upon your will.

For those who aspire to the logic, or logos, of the angels:



For those who follow the logic of demons, the lost souls sick from hate:



Estuans interius Burning inside
ira vehementi with violent anger,
in amaritudine bitterly
loquor mee menti: I speak to my heart:
factus de materia, created from matter,
cinis elementi of the ashes of the elements,
similis sum folio, I am like a leaf
de quo ludunt venti. played with by the winds.
Cum sit enim proprium If it is the way
viro sapienti of the wise man
supra petram ponere to build
sedem fundamenti, foundations on stone,
stultus ego comparor the I am a fool, like
fluvio labenti, a flowing stream,
sub eodem tramite which in its course
nunquam permanenti. never changes.
Feror ego veluti I am carried along
sine nauta navis, like a ship without a steersman,
ut per vias aeris and in the paths of the air
vaga fertur avis; like a light, hovering bird;
non me tenent vincula, chains cannot hold me,
non me tenet clavis, keys cannot imprison me,
quero mihi similes I look for people like me
et adiungor pravis. and join the wretches.
Mihi cordis gravitas The heaviness of my heart
res videtur gravis; seems like a burden to me;
iocis est amabilis it is pleasant to joke
dulciorque favis; and sweeter than honeycomb;
quicquid Venus imperat, whatever Venus commands
labor est suavis, is a sweet duty,
que nunquam in cordibus she never dwells
habitat ignavis. in a lazy heart.
Via lata gradior I travel the broad path
more iuventutis as is the way of youth,
inplicor et vitiis I give myself to vice,
immemor virtutis, unmindful of virtue,
voluptatis avidus I am eager for the pleasures of the flesh
magis quam salutis, more than for salvation,
mortuus in anima my soul is dead,
curam gero cutis. so I shall look after the flesh.

-Carmina Burana by Carl Orff

Joyful in hope, suffering in tribulation, be thou constant in thy prayer.

Benedictis, qui venit in nomine Domini. Osanna in excelsis.

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest!"

9 years ago
·
#4371
Are you saying the logic of the New Testament, The Church Fathers, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas is the logic of demons too, because the Catholic Church is more in line with these logically than weor... Why do you think Schiller could adequately explain the logic of angels any? Or the Golliards' satire express the demonic logic? You don't think demons are irrational? I'm curious why... Also, why would caring for human flesh be Demonic Logic, when they don't have bodies? The quotes from Peter mention those who despise Authority as something negative... Certainly Samael did this and so does his branch of new age philosophy...
9 years ago
·
#4372
Also if your quote from 2 Peter 2 is supposed to be directed at my use of the Vatican as a reference, I'm a little confused how you think it could apply. false prophets? The Catholic Church teaches you don't have to believe any personal revelations of anyone, that the Public Revelation of Jesus Christ God's only is all that is needed, so they don't teach or proclaim anything the bible doesn't except Mary's Assumption and other less major things, but if you believe sola scriptura you contradict yourself anyhow, because all scripture is a tradition... How could the vatican be false. Sure many Catholics are false and many of its teachers and priests don't teach pure unadulterated Catholicism, but in no way is weor Gnosticism exempt of this phenomenon. So it's hard to see how Samael doesn't appear to be the more logical option for the false prophet, when he presents something new that isn't in the New Testament, but is veiled. Even beyond explanations the apostles were given and the masses weren't which appear in the writings of the gospels, but never in Jesus public sermons... The 2peter 2 quote also mentions greed, which assuming since you said regarding these times as an accusation against the Vatican, since namely it was the only modern organization I mentioned, this would be the least logical of all. Catholicism as a whole being for greed? The Vatican does represent Catholicism as a whole, I hope you know that. And the largest charity in the world would be caritas internationalis a conglomeration of a hundred and some catholic charities... So it really makes zero sense to me where you're coming from on that accusation, but maybe you aren't accusing the Vatican of being taught by false prophets? But then who are you saying is false prophets? Because that's what the 2 Peter 2 quote happens to be about.

I also enjoyed the line, " like unreasoning animals," because a undergraduate catholic seminary has much more dedication to philosophy in all its forms than this site probably ever will since it has so little currently. Samael's statement about Descartes' "cogito ergo sum" being wrong since thinking is not being in the present, shows either a disdain of reason or Samael completely talking about something he doesn't begin to understand.

I remember reading Samael at one point was at a Jesuit school so either it was too elementary of a grade to teach much logic in depth or he didn't respect their philosophical prowess and refused to be taught. I've never seen someone schooled by Jesuits show such a lack of comprehension in regards to reason and philosophy. It's shameful.
9 years ago
·
#4373
I must admit liking Latin I'd rather hear the Carmina Burana over Schiller's German anyway, although the latter isn't as bad as annoying as Wagner. Here's a great quote since this site seems to have a Wagner devotion. "Wagner's music isn't as bad as it sounds"- mark twain.. I love German philosophy and spoken word, but what a horrible language compared to Italian for opera. /cringe
9 years ago
·
#4387
Accepted Answer
And he (the Intimate Christ) spake also a parable unto them (his disciples practicing the three factors of spiritual revolution: birth: "to bear one's cross," death: "to deny oneself," and sacrifice: "to follow Christ"—Matthew 16:24); No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old (no one approaches the esoteric knowledge with their fanatical preconceptions by "wearing" doctrines in the superficial intellectual manner, to study but to have no real experience of the truth); if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent (destroying the hypocritical Pharisee fanatic's mind through empty intellectualism devoid of divine logic and the vivification of the awakened consciousness), and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old (because to agree is to comprehend scripture through experience, and in order to really comprehend the teachings of Christ, one must "deny oneself," one's preconceptions, and one's retrogressive intellectualism devoid of any genuine spiritual experience).

And no man putteth new wine into old bottles (no one can digest this wisdom if he does not purify his mind); else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish (that soul and mind will shatter because of intellectualism devoid of the spirit).

But new wine must be put into new bottles (new minds that function through Noetic and Dianoetic thought, produced through psycho-spiritual transformations in profound meditation and transmutation, since the seminal waters of the body must be transmuted into the wine of comprehension and flourishing spirituality—John 2:1-11); and both are preserved (in order to preserve this wine, one must conserve and sublimate their "waters").

No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better (meaning: my interpretations, beliefs, and concepts are better than your doctrine). -Luke 5:36-39
So please, if you have questions about how to change yourself, or how to overcome your suffering (since your posts clearly show you are sick from hate), please post them. But if do not like the wine of this teaching, the wine of the New Testament, the wine of the Church Fathers, the wine of Socrates, the wine of Plato, the wine of Aristotle, the wine of Augustine, and the spiritual wine of Aquinas, then we ask you cease such demonic logic and retire in peace.

Joyful in hope, suffering in tribulation, be thou constant in thy prayer.

Benedictis, qui venit in nomine Domini. Osanna in excelsis.

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest!"

9 years ago
·
#4403
Are Aristotle's Laws of Logic Demonic? Were they added into his book by black magicians? The Law of Non-Contradiction for example. Any help would be great. Thank you.
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