Thank you Benedictus for your reply. I had never heard of this 'retrogade ejaculation' till now. So clearly, if there is an urge within you that you feel compelled to experience orgasm, then this is clearly lust and so if you dont have the accompanying ejaculation then it will be an internal one. And therefore the result is the same, fortification of the greatest enemy that you have, ie you. So your reply does explain, that if anyone is thinking that this internal ejaculation will be away to 'have your cake and eat it too' or a way to ' beat nature or God', then he is sorely mistaken and should correct this dangerous misconception at the earliest. During the practice of white tantra, I know that erection is absolutely necessary, and if you are doing it right, with a prayerful and humble mood, then it simply wont get to the state where you are reaching the deadly point of no return, and this is the only indication of you sublimating the quota of lust for that moment, and yet vigilance is always to be maintained. Hence, in the orgasm pursuit, there is more of self-forgetting and letting go, both of which are deadly. Just because it feels like pleasure doesnt mean that its not killing your soul, and you are doing it to yourself! So my first question is answered. But I am curious abou one other thing. There are accounts of people who are saying that they are experiencing orgasm without even an erection. And no outer discharge. So do you mean to say, that orgasm means discharge internally for these persons as well wether they know it or not? And so because they dont talk about any real transformation or creation of solar bodies or even elimination of the ego, then its just proves to be black magic? Like its said, by their fruits you shall know them. If the fruit is not beheading the ego with the flaming sword, then what use is this so called sexual practice? Another point is, there is a telltale sign of internal discharge, the pee becomes cloudy afterwards, because the fluid is released in the bladder as Benedictus pointed out. So what about the other cases if this doesnt happen? Then it is not techinically an internal discharge. Now, to put it simply, we might not know everything, or the answers to all phenomena, but we do know this much, that any desire to experience orgasm, voluntary or involuntary, is forbidden and for good reason. We are not trying to find ways around this fact, because there isnt any! Its just we need to be clear on our fundamentals, and recognize signs of self deception and self manipulation in the name of spirituality.