I somehow feel like Nietzsche would disagree with these teachings. He seems like the kind of guy that would agree with warlords that invade and pillage villages, with dictators, etc, because they're "strong", and would disagree with people like Samael because he has compassion for the weak. He even said weak people should commit suicide!
I'm not saying we should be weak, of course not. But what Nietzsche says goes against the fundamentals of religious thought. His philosophy seems more like Lavey Satanism or Aleister Crowley occultism, which have a line of thought similar to this: "All that matters is power. I need to gather folllowers and admiration for myself. The weak are weak forever, the strong are strong forever. There should be a slave and a ruler. Because I rule I am better than others. Poor, disabled, lonely, depressed people are lowly, and we should increase their suffering by ignoring their pleas and lording our success over them. Let the weak drown in envy and misery, and don't let them get in the way of the enjoyment of the strong, etc".
Perhaps Nietzsche got too arrogant and that was his downfall?
I'm not saying we should be weak, of course not. But what Nietzsche says goes against the fundamentals of religious thought. His philosophy seems more like Lavey Satanism or Aleister Crowley occultism, which have a line of thought similar to this: "All that matters is power. I need to gather folllowers and admiration for myself. The weak are weak forever, the strong are strong forever. There should be a slave and a ruler. Because I rule I am better than others. Poor, disabled, lonely, depressed people are lowly, and we should increase their suffering by ignoring their pleas and lording our success over them. Let the weak drown in envy and misery, and don't let them get in the way of the enjoyment of the strong, etc".
Perhaps Nietzsche got too arrogant and that was his downfall?
Accepted Answer
Nietzsche became a fornicator and renounced the teachings. Therefore, one should approach him with distance and caution.
For thirty years I sought God. But when I looked carefully I found that in reality God was the seeker and I the sought. -Bayazid al-Bastami
Accepted Answer
Nietzsche became a fornicator and renounced the teachings. Therefore, one should approach him with distance and caution.
For thirty years I sought God. But when I looked carefully I found that in reality God was the seeker and I the sought. -Bayazid al-Bastami
Going by the law of pendulum though... wouldn't the strong end up weak and the weak strong at some point?
Nietzsche, of course, spent much of his life, prior to his complete physical and mental collapse, struggling with appalling ill-health; attacks of near-blindness, madness and incapacity that ruined his academic career and are nowadays almost unanimously thought to have been the symptoms of advanced syphilis. In 1877, when Wagner and Nietzsche’s friendship was apparently in its pomp, but Nietzsche’s health was moving through an especially rocky patch, Wagner (a bullish individual, to put it mildly) instigated a correspondence with Nietzsche’s then-doctor, evincing a great deal of concern for his younger friend, but an arresting want of tact:
“In assessing Nietzsche’s condition I have long been reminded of identical or very similar experiences with young men of great intellectual ability. Seeing them laid low by similar symptoms, I discovered all too certainly that these were the effects of masturbation [by hiding under their bed, perhaps]. Ever since I observed Nietzsche closely, guided by such experiences, all his traits of temperament and characteristic habits have transformed my fear into a conviction.”
Yes, what Herr Dr. Wagner wants to focus on is the possibility that Nietzsche was, in Wagner’s words, “a confirmed masturbator.” Back then, the world’s foremost pastime was widely considered to be an extremely risky business, as Dr. Balthazar Bekker’s study of 1716 (still influential in Nietzsche and Wagner’s day) details – the following, believe it or not, are just a few of the physical consequences supposed to derive from so-called “self-abuse:”
“Disturbances of the stomach and digestion, loss of appetite or ravenous hunger, vomiting, nausea, weakening of the organs of breathing, coughing, hoarseness, paralysis, weakening of the organ of generation to the point of impotence, lack of libido, back pain, disorders of the eye and ear, total diminution of bodily powers, paleness, thinness, pimples on the face, decline of intellectual powers, loss of memory, attacks of rage, madness, idiocy, epilepsy, fever and finally suicide.”
Wagner's Suspicion of Nietzsche's Fornication
“In assessing Nietzsche’s condition I have long been reminded of identical or very similar experiences with young men of great intellectual ability. Seeing them laid low by similar symptoms, I discovered all too certainly that these were the effects of masturbation [by hiding under their bed, perhaps]. Ever since I observed Nietzsche closely, guided by such experiences, all his traits of temperament and characteristic habits have transformed my fear into a conviction.”
Yes, what Herr Dr. Wagner wants to focus on is the possibility that Nietzsche was, in Wagner’s words, “a confirmed masturbator.” Back then, the world’s foremost pastime was widely considered to be an extremely risky business, as Dr. Balthazar Bekker’s study of 1716 (still influential in Nietzsche and Wagner’s day) details – the following, believe it or not, are just a few of the physical consequences supposed to derive from so-called “self-abuse:”
“Disturbances of the stomach and digestion, loss of appetite or ravenous hunger, vomiting, nausea, weakening of the organs of breathing, coughing, hoarseness, paralysis, weakening of the organ of generation to the point of impotence, lack of libido, back pain, disorders of the eye and ear, total diminution of bodily powers, paleness, thinness, pimples on the face, decline of intellectual powers, loss of memory, attacks of rage, madness, idiocy, epilepsy, fever and finally suicide.”
Wagner's Suspicion of Nietzsche's Fornication
Chastity is so important... I'm still a fornicator. I still lack strength to free myself from this wicked vice, but I recognize the damage it causes. Masturbation is a even worse form of fornication. It damages the brain and is a lonely and sad pleasure. After some time it doesn't even feel pleasurable anymore; it becomes a ritual, like a drug junkie using his drug so that he can feel normal again. Oh my God, if I could go back in time 10 years, I would have stopped myself from looking at a porn website after learning about it in school. I still remember the name of that cursed website. I also remember before that, when I found my brother's porn magazines that helped condition me into the vice... so there are many traps in this day and age to destroy our lives.
If Nietzsche really fell into the habit of masturbation - destroying his life in chase of a ghostly, self-punishing pleasure - then it's really sad.
If Nietzsche really fell into the habit of masturbation - destroying his life in chase of a ghostly, self-punishing pleasure - then it's really sad.
Nietzsche became a fornicator and renounced the teachings. Therefore, one should approach him with distance and caution.
Wow! I heard about Wagner accusing him of masturbation, but I never looked very far into it.
I've always liked his writings a great deal, and thought that the Übermensch was the same as the Christified Initiate. He was a great inspiration on me, and his writings still strongly influence me. It is kind of shocking, and a bit disheartening, knowing that these feelings I have always had for his works are now apparently invalid.
How much did his masturbation addiction affect his writings, is there any value left in them? It is hard for me to toss him aside now entirely, especially with how strongly I have supported him up to this point.
Edit: Further reflecting on him:
Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Übermensch—a rope over an abyss
For example, this quote that has been so important to me. I've always been well aware of his flaws, such as the original poster mentioned, and also his over-intellectualism and ramblings, but, I cannot criticize all of his writings. Are we "allowed" to still take apparent value from this individual, or is it just a waste of time? This is quite sad.
@Hasan
I always remember whenever I read people a quote from VM Samael, I cannot remember where this quote is, so I cannot reference it, but it was on the lines of: "When reading people take what is valuable and throw away the rest".
I think this way in regards to Nietzsche.
I admire so much of his work, but there are aspects where I can clearly see him entering places I do not personally agree with and that is fine! Just as Almustafa says: "Therefore, one should approach him with distance and caution." We have VM Samael and the masters to guide us from falling into the snares of thinkers which they unintentionally lay down for their readers and admirers.
I always remember whenever I read people a quote from VM Samael, I cannot remember where this quote is, so I cannot reference it, but it was on the lines of: "When reading people take what is valuable and throw away the rest".
I think this way in regards to Nietzsche.
I admire so much of his work, but there are aspects where I can clearly see him entering places I do not personally agree with and that is fine! Just as Almustafa says: "Therefore, one should approach him with distance and caution." We have VM Samael and the masters to guide us from falling into the snares of thinkers which they unintentionally lay down for their readers and admirers.
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