I am at a loss in my work. I always slip back into the same old habits. Despite my most sincere attempts at meditation, Self Remembrance, Three Factors, it is like there is no answer. I always, always, slip back. I really try to study these teachings every day, especially and above all the ones about psychology, in order to change my behaviors. But all of this seems to be of no avail.
I would really, really like to be an incredibly serious student. I would like to truly dedicate myself without fail, above everything else, to this path. But I am not able to make any fundamental change to my actual behaviors, because the ego simply resists the attempts of negating bad thoughts and behaviors. I will wake up one day, with every good thought, every sentiment in my heart, to not fall into the trap of lust. I will even remember beautiful things, like how it would be seriously beneficial to be free of lust, the beauty of the innocence of a child, etc, and I will really feel it... But then lust strikes, and well, I resist it for a while, but it simply takes over, and slip into unchaste action, despite my heart-felt conviction against it. Later on, I repent. This happens with some other vices as well. In reality I want to scream, I want to explode with fury and terror, because this is actually mind-breaking. My actions are opposed to my every intention. If this goes on any further I will honestly lose my mind.
I pray. I meditate. I study. I have not a single doubt in my mind that these teachings are true. I have seriously read even the responses on this website. I know to reflect the virtues of chastity. I pull out every stop when dangerous egos strike. In all of this it seems that I do not know how to remember my Self. I do not really achieve this state, but I try to, and perhaps get something close. But I am never able to maintain it. The ego always resists. It becomes too difficult. I really do not know what to do at all.
I have this post public for the sake of anyone who is suffering from the same issue.
Thank you. Inverential peace.
I would really, really like to be an incredibly serious student. I would like to truly dedicate myself without fail, above everything else, to this path. But I am not able to make any fundamental change to my actual behaviors, because the ego simply resists the attempts of negating bad thoughts and behaviors. I will wake up one day, with every good thought, every sentiment in my heart, to not fall into the trap of lust. I will even remember beautiful things, like how it would be seriously beneficial to be free of lust, the beauty of the innocence of a child, etc, and I will really feel it... But then lust strikes, and well, I resist it for a while, but it simply takes over, and slip into unchaste action, despite my heart-felt conviction against it. Later on, I repent. This happens with some other vices as well. In reality I want to scream, I want to explode with fury and terror, because this is actually mind-breaking. My actions are opposed to my every intention. If this goes on any further I will honestly lose my mind.
I pray. I meditate. I study. I have not a single doubt in my mind that these teachings are true. I have seriously read even the responses on this website. I know to reflect the virtues of chastity. I pull out every stop when dangerous egos strike. In all of this it seems that I do not know how to remember my Self. I do not really achieve this state, but I try to, and perhaps get something close. But I am never able to maintain it. The ego always resists. It becomes too difficult. I really do not know what to do at all.
I have this post public for the sake of anyone who is suffering from the same issue.
Thank you. Inverential peace.
Accepted Answer
As long as we do not understand the cause of the problem, the problem will repeat.
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes.” —Demosthenes
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
How often do you meditate upon your lust?
For thirty years I sought God. But when I looked carefully I found that in reality God was the seeker and I the sought. -Bayazid al-Bastami
Almost every day. Is it perhaps because I was not meditating properly? The lust that afflicts me is very powerful and overwhelming, it is difficult to comprehend.
Obsessions to end lust often exacerbate the issue. If you are overwhelmed by desire, you should occupy yourself and direct your energy towards creative endeavors: hiking, painting, sculpting, writing, exercise, playing a sport in moderation, reading sacred scriptures, serving humanity, etc.
If you just obsess over your lust and try to meditate, your mind will already be frazzled. If you surround yourself with temptations and have no constructive activities to replace them with, then you will seek out trouble.
Learn to find psychological equilibrium, balance your activities and engage your consciousness in superior acts. In this way you will gain enough stability to actually root out the ego and comprehend it deeply in meditation.
Also, burn sage and smudge yourself with its smoke while reciting the Conjurations of the Four and Seven. This will help reduce obsessive thoughts and behaviors.
If you just obsess over your lust and try to meditate, your mind will already be frazzled. If you surround yourself with temptations and have no constructive activities to replace them with, then you will seek out trouble.
Learn to find psychological equilibrium, balance your activities and engage your consciousness in superior acts. In this way you will gain enough stability to actually root out the ego and comprehend it deeply in meditation.
Also, burn sage and smudge yourself with its smoke while reciting the Conjurations of the Four and Seven. This will help reduce obsessive thoughts and behaviors.
For thirty years I sought God. But when I looked carefully I found that in reality God was the seeker and I the sought. -Bayazid al-Bastami
Thank you. Your indication about mental obsessions stood out to me.
I often try to change activities when tempted by lust: listen to classical music, play with friends or pets, read, etc. But when the temptation is really bad, all these activities become painfully boring, even if under regular circumstances I would find them highly engaging.
I have reflected on your answer a bit, and the idea of mental obsessions is really correct. I am constantly clouded with thoughts, often very obsessive or repetitive thoughts. Even while attempting to have a relaxed mind, I will easily slip from it into an obsessive idea for a long period of time. I feel like I am in a mental confusion or darkness, and this also is too much.
In fact, just after my initial post, I had the opportunity to go out into the forest and meditate. Far away from my routine life, my mind had new clarity and peace that it did not have in perhaps years. It was for only one day, but I realized a number of things during this trip, and it has given me great inspiration to continue and radically strengthen my spiritual practice. But the clarity has already gone away, and I am back to where I was, in terms of how I feel mentally.
I suppose I am asking for your recommendation. I know you have already explained to use the incense and conjurations, but this seems like a very difficult issue, so I would like to know if there is anything else.
Thank you so much Almustafa.
I often try to change activities when tempted by lust: listen to classical music, play with friends or pets, read, etc. But when the temptation is really bad, all these activities become painfully boring, even if under regular circumstances I would find them highly engaging.
I have reflected on your answer a bit, and the idea of mental obsessions is really correct. I am constantly clouded with thoughts, often very obsessive or repetitive thoughts. Even while attempting to have a relaxed mind, I will easily slip from it into an obsessive idea for a long period of time. I feel like I am in a mental confusion or darkness, and this also is too much.
In fact, just after my initial post, I had the opportunity to go out into the forest and meditate. Far away from my routine life, my mind had new clarity and peace that it did not have in perhaps years. It was for only one day, but I realized a number of things during this trip, and it has given me great inspiration to continue and radically strengthen my spiritual practice. But the clarity has already gone away, and I am back to where I was, in terms of how I feel mentally.
I suppose I am asking for your recommendation. I know you have already explained to use the incense and conjurations, but this seems like a very difficult issue, so I would like to know if there is anything else.
Thank you so much Almustafa.
Conjure and cleanse your home daily. Sage yourself while reciting the conjurations and invocations. Be sure to fill your day with constructive activities, so that you direct your creative energies wisely. When you stop thinking about a problem, the problem ends.
For thirty years I sought God. But when I looked carefully I found that in reality God was the seeker and I the sought. -Bayazid al-Bastami
One more thing…
After trying so hard and failing so many times, it is difficult to see how I am able to overcome these problems. I have just done this so many times, you see, it is very depressing. Is there any way I can guarantee that I will not fail to my vices (anger, lust, etc) again, at least, on a basic, physical level?
Thank you
After trying so hard and failing so many times, it is difficult to see how I am able to overcome these problems. I have just done this so many times, you see, it is very depressing. Is there any way I can guarantee that I will not fail to my vices (anger, lust, etc) again, at least, on a basic, physical level?
Thank you
These lapses into lustful behavior are signs of a weak, dispersed will.
Just as a warrior in the ring must train for years to defeat a powerful enemy, you must strengthen your will over time to cultivate the willpower to end indulgence in lustful behaviors.
Your lust is Goliath. Each time you struggle against it, you are strengthening the will to resist its power over you. Use all the methods, meditation, and suggestions you are aware of to increase the duration of time that you can remain in chastity. The longer you can go without physically indulging in lust, the stronger your willpower will become. Free, conscious willpower is fueled by the energies we cultivate through chaste transmutation. Never miss a single day's pranayama practice—not even once. Find at least 15-30 minutes daily for pranayama somewhere in your day.
Struggling to resist lust will strengthen you. Over time, the intervals between sexual falls will become longer if you are sincerely putting the teachings into practice. Eventually, these falls will become very rare, until your have finally cultivated the will to eliminate sexual falls entirely.
After the physical habits of lust have been conquered, you will continue into further conquering the psychological habits of lust at deeper levels.
Just as a warrior in the ring must train for years to defeat a powerful enemy, you must strengthen your will over time to cultivate the willpower to end indulgence in lustful behaviors.
Your lust is Goliath. Each time you struggle against it, you are strengthening the will to resist its power over you. Use all the methods, meditation, and suggestions you are aware of to increase the duration of time that you can remain in chastity. The longer you can go without physically indulging in lust, the stronger your willpower will become. Free, conscious willpower is fueled by the energies we cultivate through chaste transmutation. Never miss a single day's pranayama practice—not even once. Find at least 15-30 minutes daily for pranayama somewhere in your day.
Struggling to resist lust will strengthen you. Over time, the intervals between sexual falls will become longer if you are sincerely putting the teachings into practice. Eventually, these falls will become very rare, until your have finally cultivated the will to eliminate sexual falls entirely.
After the physical habits of lust have been conquered, you will continue into further conquering the psychological habits of lust at deeper levels.
"If thou canst not make thine own self what thou desireth, how shalt thou be able to fashion another to thine own liking. We are ready to see others made perfect, and yet we do not amend our own shortcomings."
—Thomas à Kempis
I deeply appreciate your response. Your comment here stood out to me, very radically actually:
This actually changes the way I perceive the teachings. I’ve always had a very militant approach, and assumed “cold turkey” was the only acceptable answer. I had thought one physical fall is a total, irreversible relapse of everything. As a result, I would feel totally terrified after falling, which was very often. But it seems you are admitting that “total failure” is not the case, and that one can actually progress against a defect, and ultimately overcome it, including lust and orgasm, while still failing against it?
Intellectually, I see that I have potential to be a true spiritual aspirant, and that it is possible to overcome vices and lust. But the reality, having nothing to do with the intellect, is the opposite. As a result, I feel very disappointed in myself, and it is hard not to see myself as a “lost cause.” What is the method of transferring my goal, that being a true aspirant, into the reality?
If even my intellectual understanding of these teachings was so fundamentally wrong, what do I put in place to correct this? How do I avoid falling into mistakes, and have clear understanding?
Thank you so much.
Struggling to resist lust will strengthen you. Over time, the intervals between sexual falls will become longer if you are sincerely putting the teachings into practice. Eventually, these falls will become very rare, until your have finally cultivated the will to eliminate sexual falls entirely.
This actually changes the way I perceive the teachings. I’ve always had a very militant approach, and assumed “cold turkey” was the only acceptable answer. I had thought one physical fall is a total, irreversible relapse of everything. As a result, I would feel totally terrified after falling, which was very often. But it seems you are admitting that “total failure” is not the case, and that one can actually progress against a defect, and ultimately overcome it, including lust and orgasm, while still failing against it?
Intellectually, I see that I have potential to be a true spiritual aspirant, and that it is possible to overcome vices and lust. But the reality, having nothing to do with the intellect, is the opposite. As a result, I feel very disappointed in myself, and it is hard not to see myself as a “lost cause.” What is the method of transferring my goal, that being a true aspirant, into the reality?
If even my intellectual understanding of these teachings was so fundamentally wrong, what do I put in place to correct this? How do I avoid falling into mistakes, and have clear understanding?
Thank you so much.
“You cannot expect from a weak man something that requires strength. One can make demands of a man only in accordance with the strength he has to fulfill them.” —Gurdjieff
I don't want to diminish the severity of a sexual fall, because it is a serious crime against divinity and oneself. The best approach is always to completely renounce orgasm and to never return to it. However, if one is incapable of conquering his lust, what other option does he have but to struggle against himself over time until he can accomplish self-discipline? If the reality of your situation is that you continue to fall, you must work to develop the strength of will to master yourself over time. This is not a change to the teachings, but you seem to be admitting that you lack self-discipline, which you must then acquire as your first task.
“As long as a man does not separate himself from himself he can achieve nothing, and no one can help him. To govern oneself is a very difficult thing — it is a problem for the future; it requires much power and demands much work. But this first thing, to separate oneself from oneself, does not require much strength, it only needs desire, serious desire, the desire of a grown-up man. If a man cannot do it, it shows that he lacks the desire of a grown-up man. Consequently it proves that there is nothing for him here [in the esoteric school]. What we do here can only be a doing suitable for grown-up men.” —Gurdjieff
If you fail, you start again and work again at developing chastity. That repeated effort will develop willpower, although, of course, each sexual fall is depleting your willpower. In order not to become a perpetual Sisyphus, you need to hold yourself accountable. Track the length of your time in chastity, and each day make a commitment to be chaste that day. Find alternative activities that allow you to be successful in overcoming a lustful sensation. Don't surround yourself with temptations. Learn to separate yourself from your own lust, so you can observe your lust without being controlled by it.
Our mind, our thinking, has nothing in common with us, with our essence—no connection, no dependence. . .
The mind is capable of functioning independently, but it also has the capacity of becoming identified with the essence, of becoming a function of the essence. In the majority of those present, the mind does not try to be independent but is merely a function. . .
At present we are not capable of controlling our states, and so it cannot be demanded of us. But when we acquire this capacity, corresponding demands will be made.
In order to understand better what I mean, I shall give you an example: now, in a calm state, not reacting to anything or anyone, I decide to set myself the task of establishing a good relationship with Mr. B., because I need him for business purposes and can do what I wish only with his help. But I dislike Mr. B. for he is a very disagreeable man. He understands nothing. He is a blockhead. He is vile, anything you like. I am so made that these traits affect me. Even if he merely looks at me, I become irritated. If he talks nonsense, I am beside myself. I am only a man, so I am weak and cannot persuade myself that I need not be annoyed—I shall go on being annoyed.
Yet I can control myself, depending on how serious my desire is to gain the end I wish to gain through him. If I keep to this purpose, to this desire, I shall be able to do so. No matter how annoyed I may be, this state of wishing will be in my mind. No matter how furious, how beside myself I am, in a corner of my mind I shall still remember the task I set myself. My mind is unable to restrain me from anything, unable to make me feel this or that toward him, but it is able to remember. I say to myself: “You need him, so don’t be cross or rude to him.” It could even happen that I would curse him, or hit him, but my mind would continue to pluck at me, reminding me that I should not do so. But the mind is powerless to do anything.
This is precisely what anyone who has a serious desire not to identify himself with his essence can do. This is what is meant by “separating the mind from the essence.”
And what happens when the mind becomes merely a function? If I am annoyed, if I lose my temper, I shall think, or rather “it” will think, in accordance with this annoyance, and I shall see everything in the light of the annoyance. To hell with it!
And so I say that with a serious man—a simple, ordinary man without any extraordinary powers, but a grown-up man—whatever he decides, whatever problem he has set himself, that problem will always remain in his head. Even if he cannot achieve it in practice, he will always keep it in his mind. Even if he is influenced by other considerations, his mind will not forget the problem he has set himself. He has a duty to perform and, if he is honest, he will strive to perform it, because he is a grown-up man.
No one can help him in this remembering, in this separation of oneself from oneself. A man must do it for himself.
—Gurdjieff, Views from the Real World
"If thou canst not make thine own self what thou desireth, how shalt thou be able to fashion another to thine own liking. We are ready to see others made perfect, and yet we do not amend our own shortcomings."
—Thomas à Kempis
Thank you very much... I will really have to read over and study your answers. This forum is a truly invaluable resource and I cannot express my gratitude enough. May all beings be happy. Inverential Peace.
Thank you very much for this, I have read it thoroughly.
It seems Almustafa had a new post of mine become a reply to this thread. I will re-write it to be a little more relevant and have something new as well.
It seems Almustafa had a new post of mine become a reply to this thread. I will re-write it to be a little more relevant and have something new as well.
I have fallen again. In short, I made it 38 days total in chastity (my longest record), until my willpower broke. This was perhaps my greatest attempt at chastity. I was then assaulted tremendously by temptation for two days. I lost sleep over it, constantly facing incredible sexual urges for the entire night, leaving me sleepless. I used every indication: prayer, meditation, etc. The amount of lust I felt caused me to feel physically ill. It was truly terrible. Eventually my mind became disorganized and my willpower broke. I am going to have to start over again. I know that that is all I can do, but I am ashamed and a little discouraged in myself.
Since then as well, I made another mistake. I had a very sudden anger outburst. I am a very calm and not outwardly angry person, but I had a sudden outburst that I am very disappointed in. Honestly, I am not completely sure why it happened the way it did, since it was "out of nowhere." Essentially I made a small mistake, and totally lost it, which hasn't happened since I was a child. The causes appear to be self hatred and stress in life. I am horribly disappointed in myself because of this, especially having a strong knowledge of the psychological aspects of these teachings and daily practice of meditation. I have "no excuse," and it is very embarrassing.
Really, I am continuously improving my effort in practicing these teachings, always starting again after every mistake. Nevertheless, the extent of the ego is so discouraging. I still fall into these basic mistakes, and I am obviously not very good at not identifying and Self-Remembering. I feel like I should already be past this, celebrating a full year or more of chastity, not having random anger outbursts that I have never had before, etc. I still feel like I am failing. Please, advise me on this.
I am sorry for using your time, but you are the only people whose advice I really trust. Thank you.
Inverential Peace.
Since then as well, I made another mistake. I had a very sudden anger outburst. I am a very calm and not outwardly angry person, but I had a sudden outburst that I am very disappointed in. Honestly, I am not completely sure why it happened the way it did, since it was "out of nowhere." Essentially I made a small mistake, and totally lost it, which hasn't happened since I was a child. The causes appear to be self hatred and stress in life. I am horribly disappointed in myself because of this, especially having a strong knowledge of the psychological aspects of these teachings and daily practice of meditation. I have "no excuse," and it is very embarrassing.
Really, I am continuously improving my effort in practicing these teachings, always starting again after every mistake. Nevertheless, the extent of the ego is so discouraging. I still fall into these basic mistakes, and I am obviously not very good at not identifying and Self-Remembering. I feel like I should already be past this, celebrating a full year or more of chastity, not having random anger outbursts that I have never had before, etc. I still feel like I am failing. Please, advise me on this.
I am sorry for using your time, but you are the only people whose advice I really trust. Thank you.
Inverential Peace.
Accepted Answer
As long as we do not understand the cause of the problem, the problem will repeat.
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes.” —Demosthenes
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
Your answers sometimes seem too short, but I often find after some time that they were the best and clearest thing that could have been said. God willing, I will be able to overcome these problems. Thank you very much Alexis. Inverential Peace.
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