It is said that each Monad is assigned 3000 cycles of samsara concluding in 108 lives in the humanoid kingdom for each cycle. Taken literally this would make a total of 324.000 humanoid bodies. Although I am aware that numbers have a symbolic meaning, it is also often said that they have some literal meaning as well.
Quoted from an answer to a similar question on the forum:
"What we get is 3000 cycles of existences, and 108 human lives per cycle. That's a total of 324,000 human physical bodies."
[...]
"And the numbers do have Kabbalistic significance, but they also have a literal value."
From my perpective, this seems incoherent with the following statement, quoted from The Mystery of the Golden Blossom, from the chapter "The Transmigration of Souls:
"I knew well that the Wheel of Samsara turns incessantly in an evolving and devolving way and that Essences, after passing through the intellectual animal kingdom, descend millions of times to the horrifying precipice to eliminate the subjective elements of perception. However, by no means did I long for more abysmal suffering, and that is why I was very willing to make the best of my new cycle of rational existences."
It clearly says "descend millions of times". So that would imply, and please correct me if I am wrong, millions, not just one, but many millions of descends into the abyss, thus implying many millions of evolutions and devolutions in the wheel of samsara.
I simply cannot see the literal value here, there is just too great of a difference between 324.000 and many millions. So then, are we to take the 3000 and the 108 as purely symbolic?
Also, 324.000 humanoid bodies just seems like really really few when we take the magnitude of all of existence into account. Just a personal feeling.
It would be greatly appreciated if someone could shed light on this matter.
Quoted from an answer to a similar question on the forum:
"What we get is 3000 cycles of existences, and 108 human lives per cycle. That's a total of 324,000 human physical bodies."
[...]
"And the numbers do have Kabbalistic significance, but they also have a literal value."
From my perpective, this seems incoherent with the following statement, quoted from The Mystery of the Golden Blossom, from the chapter "The Transmigration of Souls:
"I knew well that the Wheel of Samsara turns incessantly in an evolving and devolving way and that Essences, after passing through the intellectual animal kingdom, descend millions of times to the horrifying precipice to eliminate the subjective elements of perception. However, by no means did I long for more abysmal suffering, and that is why I was very willing to make the best of my new cycle of rational existences."
It clearly says "descend millions of times". So that would imply, and please correct me if I am wrong, millions, not just one, but many millions of descends into the abyss, thus implying many millions of evolutions and devolutions in the wheel of samsara.
I simply cannot see the literal value here, there is just too great of a difference between 324.000 and many millions. So then, are we to take the 3000 and the 108 as purely symbolic?
Also, 324.000 humanoid bodies just seems like really really few when we take the magnitude of all of existence into account. Just a personal feeling.
It would be greatly appreciated if someone could shed light on this matter.
Accepted Answer
I interpret that quote as referring to a single revolution of the wheel:
"I knew well that the Wheel of Samsara turns incessantly in an evolving and devolving way and that Essences, after passing through the intellectual animal kingdom (and failing to use their 108 lives), descend millions of times (into millions of bodies - animal, then plant, then mineral - that are born, then suffer, and die as the essence descends; ie, pigs, monkeys, animals in slaughteryards) to the horrifying precipice (the second death, where the essence is finally cleaned) to eliminate the subjective elements of perception. However, by no means did I long for more abysmal suffering, and that is why I was very willing to make the best of my new cycle of rational existences."
"I knew well that the Wheel of Samsara turns incessantly in an evolving and devolving way and that Essences, after passing through the intellectual animal kingdom (and failing to use their 108 lives), descend millions of times (into millions of bodies - animal, then plant, then mineral - that are born, then suffer, and die as the essence descends; ie, pigs, monkeys, animals in slaughteryards) to the horrifying precipice (the second death, where the essence is finally cleaned) to eliminate the subjective elements of perception. However, by no means did I long for more abysmal suffering, and that is why I was very willing to make the best of my new cycle of rational existences."
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes.” —Demosthenes
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"...only so many opportunities to self-realize?"
All things considered, divinity gives us everything we need to self-realize. The problem is not the number of opportunities, but that we simply are not interested in mastery.
Furthermore, the existence of transmigration and the suffering of beings is indeed terrifying, and made more so by the realization that it is all perpetuated by our own actions.
All things considered, divinity gives us everything we need to self-realize. The problem is not the number of opportunities, but that we simply are not interested in mastery.
Furthermore, the existence of transmigration and the suffering of beings is indeed terrifying, and made more so by the realization that it is all perpetuated by our own actions.
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes.” —Demosthenes
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
Okay, thank you for clarifying.
It seems the only thing left to ask is, at what point does one become free of the limitation of getting only so many opportunities to self-realize?
Is it not the most anguishing thought in all of existence, infinitely more terryfing than the sufferings of hell, infinitely more dreadful than all possible pains and tortures of samsara combined and endured for countless eons, to lose the opportunity to achieve mastery?
It seems the only thing left to ask is, at what point does one become free of the limitation of getting only so many opportunities to self-realize?
Is it not the most anguishing thought in all of existence, infinitely more terryfing than the sufferings of hell, infinitely more dreadful than all possible pains and tortures of samsara combined and endured for countless eons, to lose the opportunity to achieve mastery?
Accepted Answer
I interpret that quote as referring to a single revolution of the wheel:
"I knew well that the Wheel of Samsara turns incessantly in an evolving and devolving way and that Essences, after passing through the intellectual animal kingdom (and failing to use their 108 lives), descend millions of times (into millions of bodies - animal, then plant, then mineral - that are born, then suffer, and die as the essence descends; ie, pigs, monkeys, animals in slaughteryards) to the horrifying precipice (the second death, where the essence is finally cleaned) to eliminate the subjective elements of perception. However, by no means did I long for more abysmal suffering, and that is why I was very willing to make the best of my new cycle of rational existences."
"I knew well that the Wheel of Samsara turns incessantly in an evolving and devolving way and that Essences, after passing through the intellectual animal kingdom (and failing to use their 108 lives), descend millions of times (into millions of bodies - animal, then plant, then mineral - that are born, then suffer, and die as the essence descends; ie, pigs, monkeys, animals in slaughteryards) to the horrifying precipice (the second death, where the essence is finally cleaned) to eliminate the subjective elements of perception. However, by no means did I long for more abysmal suffering, and that is why I was very willing to make the best of my new cycle of rational existences."
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes.” —Demosthenes
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
"Do not worry; cultivate the habit of being happy." —Samael Aun Weor
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